"Compact" 9mm
 

Long story short, I am thinking of selling the J Frame .38. I really like the pocketability of the J Frame, but it's not so high on the fun to shoot list. With other preps right now, I am going to limit myself to only one handgun for the time being. (I should be getting my grandfather's 1911 at some point soon from my uncle, but I'm not waiting that out). With that being said, I think I would be better off with something with a little more capacity than the J frame. I know that I am losing the pocket carry ability with a larger size gun, but that's a trade that I will have to live with. I have looked at the M&P 9c, Glock 19, XD-9 Compact and the Sig P250.

I have always thought the grip on the Glock was too deep (front to back) for me to get a comfortable grip on it. I know that the Gen 4 G19 is due out sometime this year w/ the interchangeable backstraps so I could wait to try it, but even then, I don't like the grip angle as much and I would expect higher pricing on initial release which I'm not too interested in paying.

The Sig "modularity" concept of the P250 sounds good in theory, but it may be a gimmick in the end, and I don't really plan on changing calibers. The Compact (not sub-compact) version felt balanced and well made. I have heard rumors of some issues w/ the Sig so I'm not sold on it, but I do like it and am considering it as an option based on Sigs past reputation. I also like the trigger pull feel of the Sig coming from a DAO revolver.

The M&P feels a little more balanced and is smaller than the Sig which is a plus in my book as I think concealability will be a good thing in SHTF scenario. I don't like it when using the Mag w/o the pinky grip. Call me old school or an amateur, but I also like the availability of a thumb safety on the M&P. Made in USA is also good in my book.

The XD is more "brick-like" which would make cc less comfortable (I think), but I can get a good grip on it w/ the small mag and it also comes with the larger mag w/ extension. It is also smaller than the Sig.

Going from a revolver to a semi, reliability is a concern. I hear good things bout the XD and Glock in this area and haven't heard any negatives about the M&P. Availability of aftermarket options is also a plus. Any input from those w/ more experience would be appreciated.

Re: "Compact" 9mm
 

A CZ P-01 has been through NATO certification testing, and is a fairly high-capacity (14 rnd) 9mm that is not particularly large is size, while retaining the legendary grip-fit of the CZ-75.

The P-01 is now a NATO classified pistol and issued the NATO stock number NSN 1005-16-000-8619.

The CZ P-01 is the culmination of several years of exhaustive design and testing. Ceska Zbrojovka has always had some of the most rigorous testing requirements in the world but, the Czech National police has required that they go even further, the testing regiment for this new pistol was the most demanding anyone has ever encountered. There are almost 20 specific requirements covering everything from accuracy to interchangability, from safety to reliability/durability and everything in between.

The pistol: The CZ P-01 is a Gen 3 pistol that began as a requirement for a lightweight compact pistol that will deliver the accuracy and durability of a full size, full weight pistol. This was no small task, several manufacturers declined to even start the project.

The first thing you notice about this pistol is the M3 light rail on the frame, a first for CZ, the alloy frame is a little wider at the top than a steel CZ 75. This adds strength and rigidity for mounting the light and increasing the accuracy and service life of the pistol. The P-01 also sports enhanced controls as well as a drop free magazine and a lanyard loop.

The pistol was required to pass a wide variety of tests:

The police required that the pistol ensure the highest level of comfort, an extended slide release was added as well as an extended magazine release and the trigger was reshaped to give a more consistent pull throughout the trigger stroke.

The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

Re: "Compact" 9mm
 

If you can afford it, the H&K P7 is the pinnacle of pocket 9mm's. SUPERB is the only way to adequately describe it. The CZ P01 recommended above is quite a bit thicker, and about an inch longer, but I've never heard anyone who owns a CZ badmouth it. The Ruger SR9c is approx. the same dimensions as the P7, with a polymer frame and 6oz. lower weight, at about 1/3 to 1/4 the price of the H&K based on recent P7 "to da moon" pricing.

If I were looking for a compact 9, I'd lean toward the Ruger SR9c based on current prices and offerings from different manufacturers. I spent an afternoon shooting a friend's SR9 (the larger version of the SR9c), and I was quite impressed with it.

Another option is the Wilson Combat ADP. I owned one several years ago, it's approx. the same size as the H&K P7, but also in polymer. It has been almost universally savaged in the press (mostly based on "why would Wilson Combat, a 1911 maker, release this puny 9mm?) - but I found mine to be exceptionally accurate, reliable, and pleasing to shoot. I finally sold it when I realized that I just loved shooting my P7 more... I don't keep "safe queens" and tend to get rid of guns I don't shoot much or have a specific nitch for. I haven't seen an ADP in any gunshops lately, so they might have discontinued it.

Re: "Compact" 9mm
 

Take a look at the Glock 26. Very accurate and reliable. Holds 10+1 rounds of +P. I prefer the factory mag base to any of the extensions. I also add a cut-down Hogue grip and a GAP Enterprises mag floor plate.

There are any number of folks that can modify the Glock's grip to suit your needs. Robar is one I can think of at the moment...

Re: "Compact" 9mm
 

Also, take a look at the S&W M&P compact 9mm. They are a pure joy to shoot.

Re: "Compact" 9mm
 

I did - it was one of the 4 in my post. I'm leaning towards the M&P 9c or the XD right now. Do you have a 9c? How has the reliability been?


Silvercity - I looked at the Glock 26. The grip is way too short (top to bottom) for my tastes. I need to be able to get a pinky on it. Glock reliability speakes volumes, and if I was going that route, I would get a 19. Also - I don't want to have to pay more after the fact for custom grip work if I can find something else I like straight from the factory. (Plus - I don't think the basic grip angle can be corrected without a seriuos overhall of the magwell, etc. if at all.)

Re: "Compact" 9mm
 

I've been very happy with my Kel-Tec PF9. I just ordered five more magazines for it a few days ago. I think it's the smallest 9mm semi-auto in production.

Re: "Compact" 9mm
 

No, but I have 2 range buddies; 1 carries the 9c and the other carries the 9leo. We have all ran a few thousand rounds through both and they perform flawlessly (we shoot at least 1 day a week). I was most impressed with the overall shootability of the M&P series but cannot make any personal claims on the reliability other than what I've witnessed at the range.

Re: "Compact" 9mm
 

I have average sized hands and find the hogue grip, GAP floorplate works fine for me. I simply wrap my pinkie underneath and have complete control. My G26, G27 and G33 all have the same set-up. Try shooting one first before you dismiss it.

Also Robar grip-reduction does indeed change the grip angle without affecting the mags or magwell. They used to charge $50 for the modification. Never had one done, but I like the feel of it.

Re: "Compact" 9mm
 

I had no idea that kind of custom grip work could be done to a polymer pistol. $50 is much more reasonable that I would have expected.

I still prefer the 19 over the 17 though. I've shot a few subcompact 9s where I couldn't get a pinky on it and I didn't care for the feel.